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Rebuttal to Jochen Katz' "Who suffers loss if Muhammad was wrong?" article:

This article is a rebuttal to Jochen Katz' article that is located at: http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/astray.html.

 

 

He wrote:

A Plain Error and Contradiction in the Qur'an:

 

Who suffers loss if Muhammad was wrong?


In Sura 34:50, Muhammad is commanded to say the following:

Say: ‘If I go astray, I go astray only to my own loss; if I am guided, it is by what my Lord reveals to me. He is All-hearing, Ever-nigh.’ Arberry

Say: "If (even) I go astray, I shall stray only to my own loss. But if I remain guided, it is because of the Inspiration of my Lord to me. Truly, He is All­Hearer, Ever Near (to all things)." Hilali & Khan

The error in this verse should be obvious to anyone pondering this statement for a little bit. The issue here is not whether, objectively, Muhammad went astray or was guided; Muslims and non-Muslims will continue to disagree about that. This verse is logically wrong, independent of whether Muhammad was guided or not.

 

 

My response:

First of all, the Divine Messages inside the Noble Quran are not just limited to Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him.  Unless they are directly addressing him, they are for the general Muslim Believers.  And even those that are addressing him, if they are not referring to something that is only limited to him personally and for a limited situation, then they too would be directed to the general Muslim Believers.  Let us look at few examples:

 

Noble Verses that address the Prophet and the Believers that all apply to all Muslims at all times and all places:

"O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.  (The Noble Quran, 9:73)"

"O Prophet! Fear God, and hearken not to the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites: verily God is full of Knowledge and Wisdom.   (The Noble Quran, 33:1)"

"O Prophet! Truly We have sent thee as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner,-  (The Noble Quran, 33:45)Like many other Noble Verses, this Noble Verse is Commanding the Muslims to spread the Divine Holy Words of Allah Almighty to mankind.

"Therefore, (O Prophet,) turn away from them. The Day that the Caller will call (them) to a terrible affair,  (The Noble Quran, 54:6)"

"O ye who believe! When ye hold secret counsel, do it not for iniquity and hostility, and disobedience to the Prophet; but do it for righteousness and self- restraint; and fear God, to Whom ye shall be brought back.   (The Noble Quran, 58:9)"

"O Prophet! When believing women come to thee to take the oath of fealty to thee, that they will not associate in worship any other thing whatever with God, that they will not steal, that they will not commit adultery (or fornication), that they will not kill their children, that they will not utter slander, intentionally forging falsehood, and that they will not disobey thee in any just matter,- then do thou receive their fealty, and pray to God for the forgiveness (of their sins): for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.  (The Noble Quran, 60:12)"

"O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods: And fear God your Lord: and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open lewdness, those are limits set by God: and any who transgresses the limits of God, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if perchance God will bring about thereafter some new situation.  (The Noble Quran, 65:1)"

"O ye who believe! Turn to God with sincere repentance: In the hope that your Lord will remove from you your ills and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow,- the Day that God will not permit to be humiliated the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their Light will run forward before them and by their right hands, while they say, "Our Lord! Perfect our Light for us, and grant us Forgiveness: for Thou hast power over all things."  (The Noble Quran, 66:8)"

"O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed).  (The Noble Quran, 66:9)"

"O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.  (The Noble Quran, 33:59)"

The above Noble Verses are direct Divine Commands to Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and the Muslims to follow.  These Noble Verses are for all times and all places.   They are not just limited to the Prophet's time, 1500 years ago.

 

Noble Verses that are only limited to the Prophet and may not be applicable today:

"O Prophet! Say to thy Consorts: "If it be that ye desire the life of this World, and its glitter,- then come! I will provide for your enjoyment and set you free in a handsome manner.  (The Noble Quran, 33:28)"

"O Consorts of the Prophet! If any of you were guilty of evident unseemly conduct, the Punishment would be doubled to her, and that is easy for God.  (The Noble Quran, 33:30)"

"O Consorts of the Prophet! Ye are not like any of the (other) women: if ye do fear (God), be not too complacent of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire: but speak ye a speech (that is) just.  (The Noble Quran, 33:32)"

"O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which God has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.  (The Noble Quran, 66:1)"

"When the Prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to one of his consorts, and she then divulged it (to another), and God made it known to him, he confirmed part thereof and repudiated a part. Then when he told her thereof, she said, "Who told thee this? "He said, "He told me Who knows and is well-acquainted (with all things)."  (The Noble Quran, 66:3)"

While the Divine Wisdoms in these Noble Verses must be used for all times and all places, but the Noble Verses themselves were only Sent for specific and limited situations.

 

 

He wrote:

The Error

Who suffered and still suffers loss if Muhammad was wrong?

The first point is somewhat trivial. Muslims are commanded in the Qur'an to take Muhammad as their model, and therefore many Muslims imitate him in the smallest details of life. They dress like Muhammad, they use a miswak to brush their teeth like Muhammad did, etc. If Muhammad was wrong, then this would mean a life of unnecessary inconvenience for millions of Muslims.

 

 

My response:

This is a very ridiculous argument, because Noble Verse 34:50 above that Jochen Katz presented is not talking about the Message of the Noble Quran and Islam.  Yes, Prophet Muhammad, the human, did make mistakes.  He is not perfect, and Noble Verse 66:1 above along with several others do condemn him for making mistakes. 

No where in the Noble Quran are the Muslims Commanded to imitate the Prophet, especially in our age today!  Yes, he is our role model and our beloved Prophet, but he is not perfect, and his life-style certainly was dependent on the resources that were available to people 1500 years ago.  You can't judge Islam based on what some illiterate and ignorant fanatics do, such as never brushing their teeth with modern equipment such as using tooth bushes and tooth pastes, and only use the "miswak" or the "siwak" that our beloved Prophet used for cleaning his teeth and his breath 1500 years ago.

To the reader, please visit:  What does Islam say about bad breath and body smell?

Jochen Katz' attacks on Islam in this way only show how ridiculous and lame his argument is.  He basically has no argument!  All he does is compile a bunch of nonsense, with the exception of the Noble Verses that he misuses of course, and call it an article.  Noble Verse 34:50 is unquestionably referring to the human-will and the choices that we make in our lives. 

1-  Are you stubborn and insisting on rejecting the Truth after it became manifest to you? 

2-  Do you spread evil and mischief and thrive on corrupting others with your evilness?  Etc...

These questions and perhaps many more questions are what Noble Verse 34:50 is concerned with.  The Noble Verse is obviously assuming that Islam is the Divine Truth of GOD Almighty.  And yes, Islam is the Divine Truth of GOD Almighty.  The Noble Verse has hardly anything to do with Prophet Muhammad!  It is, as I said, talking about the human-will and choice.

 

 

He wrote:

There are, however, a lot of not so trivial aspects. If Muhammad's message and regulations were wrong, he has subjected millions of Muslim women to a life of misery (see the various articles on Women in Islam) without any reward in return! Moreover, not only those who followed Muhammad have lost, but millions of the so-called "unbelievers" have suffered because Muslims have either killed them for their lack of faith, or forced Muhammad's regulations on them and subjected them to live as second-class citizens (see the section on Non-Muslims under Islamic Rule).

Ironically, these people have suffered loss even if Muhammad had been a true prophet. Whether Muhammad was astray or guided, many lives have been destroyed by Muslim attacks on unbelievers, so that this statement is not only logically false, but false also in factual history.

Putting aside all the atrocities and suffering in this earthly life that resulted from Muhammad's teachings, the intention of this verse was certainly to make a statement about the loss suffered in eternity, i.e. whether people will be punished or rewarded in the Last Judgement based on their acceptance or rejection of God's message.

Under the assumption that Muhammad was a true messenger, those who were killed as unbelievers because they did not accept his message on the spot have lost not only their lives but also the opportunity to become convinced by the truth of Islam by having the time to study the message of Islam in-depth. [Had Islam restricted its method of expansion to peaceful proclamation and intellectual persuasion instead of using (also and much too quickly) violence and force, the situation would be vastly different.] As it is, these people have lost their lives on earth, and they will suffer eternal punishment because they died in rejection of God's message. Thus, many unbelievers will suffer eternal loss even if Muhammad was right. Though Muslims may argue that in the quranic view this may be justified, it is unquestionable that they did suffer temporal and eternal loss due to the violent nature of Islam.

If, on the other hand, the Bible is true and Muhammad was a false prophet then the number of those who suffer eternal loss increases vastly: (1) The unbelievers (idolaters, atheists, ...) who were killed for rightly rejecting Islam still lost their opportunity to hear, understand and accept the true message of God. (2) Millions and millions of Muslims who have rejected the authentic Gospel of Jesus based on Muhammad's message will be lost forever because they rejected the salvation from sin offered by God through Jesus' death on the Cross.

Thus, an enormous number of people will suffer both earthly and eternal loss if Muhammad was wrong, in stark contradiction to Sura 34:50.

After pondering these facts there can hardly be any doubt that Sura 34:50 is an objectively wrong statement. It is a plain error in the Qur'an.

Does God make errors? Would God inspire a statement as wrong as this one?

This verse exposes the very human nature of the Qur'an. It obviously did not come from God, but from Muhammad himself, and it can easily be explained why Muhammad would add such a statement into his revelation. If time permits, I may later write an appendix to this article dealing with the psychological aspect of this error.

 

 

My response:

First of all, in regards to women in Islam, Islam came to lift the status of women under the Judeo-Christian and pagan laws.  In the real laws of the bible, and the current non-Biblical Western ones, women are almost worthless according to both the Old and New Testaments believe it or not.  They are even prohibited from teaching men anything in the NT.  To the reader, please visit:

Women in Islam VS women in the Bible.

How do the Islam and the Bible view women?

Women in the Old and New Testaments.


Now in regards to terrorism, history clearly tells us that Christians are the biggest terrorist and evil-doers humanity ever produced!  All of the world wars and the millions upon millions who died in them were all done by christians, or rather it was, for the most part, a conflict among christian nations against each others.

We must not also forget that the historical brutal slavery happened mostly by christians.  It was just recently declared that slavery must not be tolerated in this world.  But before that, racism and slavery were the christians way!

We also must not forget about the Native Americans who literally 95% of them were slaughtered to death by the white european christians who came to America.

There are many examples that can be provided here, but since this is not really the scope of the article, then I'd like to refer the reader to my detailed section about Jihad, and Human Rights in Islam.

 

It is more than enough proof about Islam's Divine Truth and Fruits that Islam came and ended the Judeo-Christian and Pagan slavery in the formerly pagan Arabia for ever!

 

For more details and irrefutable proofs, please visit:  Slavery and Human Equality in Islam VS the Bible.

I just find it amazing that the hypocrisy of many christians is overwhelming.   They have no problem in the mass killings that happened by their people.  But when it comes to the Muslims, anything and everything that the most ignorant in Islam does counts to maximum against Islam.  I find that quite ludicrous.  Of course, such arguments only fly with the ignorants and the fools.

 

Declaring Jihad on the hostile disbelievers was justified!

Now in regards to Jochen Katz' absurd claims above about Jihad and the battles that the Muslims fought against the blood thirsty and hostile disbelievers who waged endless wars against the Muslims and Islam, it was all justified.  Not only it was justified, but it was the perfect solution too!

To the reader, again please visit: Jihad, and Human Rights in Islam.

Also, please visit:  Jihad (fighting for the Holy Cause of GOD Almighty) started in the Bible!

 

The Bible is all perfect and Divine?

Now in regards to the Divine Truth in Islam that Jochen Katz is questioning without presenting anything of real substance, I'd like to present to the reader some real arguments and REAL AND IRREFUTABLE PROOFS about the bible's corruption and man's alteration in it. 


From http://www.answering-christianity.com/bible_quran_differences.htm:

Irrefutable contradictions, and proofs that the original authors of today's Bible are UNKNOWN!

Muslims and Christians both agree that the Noble Quran does not agree with today's Bible in everything.  Just because the Bible might disagree on something in the Noble Quran, it doesn't at all negate the claim of the Noble Quran or make it false.  There is a certain flow of logic that the Noble Quran presents which we the Muslims believe that it is the truth.

The Bible's contents today were not written by their original authors.  For example, we read from the book of Matthew so many verses such as this one:

"...And as Jesus passed forth thence, HE (Jesus) saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and HE (Jesus) saith unto HIM (Matthew), follow ME (Jesus) and HE (Matthew) arose, and followed HIM (Jesus). (Matthew 9:9)"

Did "Matthew" write this about himself? Why then didn't Matthew write for example: "he (Jesus) saw ME, and my name is Matthew. I was sitting at the receipt of custom…" etc.

Similarly, we read in the books of Moses things such as "And the LORD said to Moses...", or "Moses went to that place....", etc...  We also read in the Old Testament about Moses' burial.  Now if Moses alone supposedly wrote his books, then how is it possible for him to write about his own burial when he is already dead??!!

Such evidence can be found in many places throughout the Old Testament and the New Testament.  The so called "Original letters/Gospels" that were written in Greek and Hebrew, were written by third party people!


Consider the following few examples that consist of historical contradictions in the Bible:

II Samuel 10:18 talks about David slew the men of 700 chariots of the Syrians and 40,000 horsemen and Shobach the commander.
I Chronicles 1:18 says that David slew the men of 7000 chariots and 40,000 footmen

I Chronicles 9:25 says that Solomon had 4000 stalls for horses and chariots.
I Kings 4:26 says that he had 40,000 stalls for horses

Ezra 2:5 talks about an exile Arah having 775 sons.
Nehemiah 7:10 talks about the same exile Arah having 652 sons.

II Samuel 24:13 So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?
I Chronicles 21:11 SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destryed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;

How did Judas die?
"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (Matthew 27:5)
"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18)

2 Samuel 6:23 Therefore MICHAL the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.
2 Samuel 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of MICHAL the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite.

2 Kings 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.
2 Chronicles 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

26th year of the reign of Asa I Kings 16:6-8
36th year of the reign of Asa I 2 Chronicles 16:1

How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
22 in 2 Kings 8:26
42 in 2 Chronicle 22:2

Who was Josiah's successor?
Jehoahaz - 2 Chronicle 36:1
Shallum - Jeremiah 22:11

Also, your original scriptures are all doubtful according to the Bible's own theologians and historians.  It's quite hilarious that even the Bible itself admits that it has been tampered with and corrupted by man's garbage:

"`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.    (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

And regarding who wrote the books and gospels of the Bible, as I quoted above, here is a sample of what the NIV Bible's theologians and historians wrote:

"Serious doubts exists as to whether these verses belong to the Gospel of Mark.  They are absent from important early manuscripts and display certain peculiarities of vocabulary, style and theological content that are unlike the rest of Mark.  His Gospel probably ended at 16:8, or its original ending has been lost.  (From the NIV Bible Foot Notes, page 1528)"

"Although the author does not name himself, evidence outside the Scriptures and inferences from the book itself lead to the conclusion that the author was Luke.  (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1643)"

"The writer of this letter does not identify himself, but he was obviously well known to the original recipients.    (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1856)"

"The letter is difficult to date with precision....(From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1905)"

"It seems safe to conclude that the book, at least in its early form, dates from the beginning of the monarchy. Some think that Samuel may have had a hand in shaping or compiling the materials of the book, but in fact we are unsure who the final author or editor was.  (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 286)"

"Although, according to tradition, Samuel wrote the book, authorship is actually uncertain.  (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 322)"

"The date of the composition is also unknown, but it was undoubtedly during the monarchy.  (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 322)"

"The author is unknown. Jewish tradition points to Samuel, but it is unlikely that he is the author because the mention of David (4:17,22) implies a later date.  (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 360)"

"Who the author was cannot be known with certainty since the book itself gives no indication of his identity.  (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 368)"

"There is little conclusive evidence as to the identity of the author of 1,2 Kings.  (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 459)"

"Whoever the author was, it is clear that he was familiar with the book of Deuteronomy.  (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 459)"

"According to ancient Jewish tradition, Ezra wrote Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah (see Introduction to Ezra: Literary Form and Authorship), but this cannot be established with certainty.  (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 569)"

"Although we do not know who wrote the book of Esther, from internal evidence it is possible to make some inferences about the author and the date of composition.  (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 707)"

"The unknown author probably had access to oral and/or written sources....(From the NIV Bible commentary, page 722)"

"Regarding authorship, opinions are even more divided....(From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 773)"

etc...

How do you respond to this?


To the reader, please visit: Contradictions and proofs of Historical Corruptions in the Bible, and see exactly what I mean, instead of acting like a total fool and saying things that even the Bible refutes in it!

It is quite obvious that Christians today believe in third party authors' words as the words of GOD.  This is a very serious corruption in the Bible that must be taken into deep consideration by the Bible's followers.  Please visit "Is the Bible the true word of GOD?" to see a full and complete paper about the logical corruptions in the Bible, along with many Christian famous priests and ministers opinions that agree with the Bible's corruption.  I have their personal quotes in that site.


Also, as to the parts of the Bible that Muslims believe are closest to the Truth, please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/warning.htm

After that, please visit:  Prophet Muhammad was foretold in many places in the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments.


It is quite obvious that Christians today believe in third party authors' words as the words of GOD.  This is a very serious corruption in the Bible that must be taken into deep consideration by the Bible's followers.  Please visit "Is the Bible the true word of GOD?" to see a full and complete paper about the logical corruptions in the Bible, along with many Christian famous priests and ministers opinions that agree with the Bible's corruption.  I have their personal quotes in that site.

 

 

He wrote:

Finally, there is one more crucial observation to be made in this section. Simply looking at how Muhammad dealt with those who propagated a different message than Islam, or voiced critique of Islam (cf. these articles), exposes that Muhammad did not even believe this statement himself. In particular, Muhammad's instruction is: Whoever leaves Islam, kill him (e.g. Sahih Al-Bukhari 4.260; for detailed discussions on the issue of apostasy in Islam consult the links at the bottom of this page). Obviously, Muhammad considered apostasy, and publicly speaking of a belief other than Islam such a grave danger to the Islamic community that the harshest possible measures had to be instituted against it. Nowhere in an Islamic society is open preaching of another religion permitted. Why not, if those who do so will "only go astray to their own loss"? The laws in the Shariah, and the reactions of Muslims towards those who want to publicly invite (Muslims) to another faith prove that they do not believe Sura 34:50 to be true.

 

 

My response:

To the reader again, please visit: Jihad, and Human Rights in Islam.

Jihad (fighting for the Holy Cause of GOD Almighty) started in the Bible!

The law of killing apostates was later abrogated when Islam became complete and the hypocrites were all defeated.  Not only that, but the killing of apostates does also exist in the Bible and it started in the Bible:

 

1-  Apostates in Islam.

2-  Killing of apostates in the Bible.


I hope the reader further sees why Jochen Katz' claims and arguments are lame and ridiculous.  Furthermore, here are some articles about the pedophilia, terrorism, mass-killing, slavery and racism in the Bible:

 

Terrorism in Islam?! (click here)
Let's look at the real terrorism in the Bible:

Pedophilia with
3-year old slave girls in the Bible!
Forcing 3-year old slave girls into sex during the Mosaic Law in the Bible! (click here)

Terror in the Bible by a number of Prophets! (click here)

Pregnant women will be ripped open! (click here)

The NT punishes children with death! (click here)

Terrorism:
"kill all the boys and non-virgin women"!
Also under the Mosaic Law! (click here)

Another killing all men, women, children and animals by Moses! (click here)

Another taking all women and children as spoils of war by Moses!
(click here)

Moses was a murderer before he became a Prophet! (click here)

Killing all of the "suckling infants" by the thousands by Saul! (click here)

Dashing little children against rocks in the book of Psalm!
Praising the dashing of little children against rocks as a form of revenge! (click here)

42 innocent children were killed using Wild Bears by Prophet Elisha!
Prophet Muhammad on the other hand loved children even those who threw stones at him in the city of Al-Ta'if. (click here)

Both equal: "Kill Righteous and the wicked"! (click here)

Maiming of the enemies' bodies under Moses' and David's Laws:
Cutting the hands and feet of the enemies in the Bible, and hanging their alive bodies on trees until they DIE.
(click here)

David's Selective Murders!
David so carelessly killed an innocent man for only telling him news.
(click here)

X-Rated Pornography in the Bible, by King Solomon!
Literally, women's vaginas and breasts taste like "wine", and brothers can "suck" their sisters' and lovers' privates!
(click here)

Fathers' fingers into their daughters' vaginas!
Under the Mosaic Law, fathers were allowed to do "Digital Defloration" to their daughters.
(click here)

Shutting the loud mouths of those who unjustly attack Islam, with Truth.

Aisha in Islam:

Let's discuss the age of Aisha being 9 when she married our Prophet (CLICK HERE):

1-  See proofs, in the "Aisha being 9" article, from the Bible about little girls as young as 9 were married off and even sold off by their fathers as slave girls to men who were even older than their fathers.

2-  See also irrefutable proofs that pedophilia and terrorism exist in the Bible.  During the Mosaic times in the Bible's Old Testament, 3-year old slave girls were literally forced into sex under Moses' Orders and Command.  You sometimes have to read things twice to believe them!

See also: Maiming of the enemies' bodies in the Bible.   Cutting the hands and feet of the enemies in the Bible, and hanging their live bodies on trees until they DIE.

*** Killing of innocent children in the Bible.

*** X-Rated Pornography in the Bible.

*** Fathers sticking their fingers into their daughters' vaginas before marriage in the Bible.


3-
  See also proofs how Aisha's parents were the ones who married her to our Prophet, and that no Muslim or even pagan objected to the marriage because it was widely practiced.  The reason no one objected was:

  1. People used to have very short life-spans in Arabia.   They used to live between 40 to 60 years maximum.  So it was only normal and natural for girls to be married off at ages 9 or 10 or similar.

  2. Marriage for young girls was widely practiced among Arabs back then, and even today in many third-world non-Muslim and Muslim countries.

Please visit: The age of Aisha, girls similar to her in the Bible, and unbelievable pedophilia against 3-year old slave babies in the pedophilic Bible.

Also visit: Why Muta (temporary) Marriage was allowed and why it was discontinued.

 

 

 

 

 

He wrote:

The Contradiction

Yet, there is more. Sura 34:50 is not only a factual error (i.e. contradicting objective reality) as outlined above, it is also part of an internal contradiction in the Qur'an which will be the topic for the remainder of this article.

Though the statement "If I go astray, I go astray only to my own loss" is hypothetical (i.e. the assumption is that Muhammad is not astray but on the right path), it stands in obvious tension to a multitude of verses in the Qur'an that demand that believers should obey and follow the messenger (Muhammad), i.e. Muhammad's words and example are supposed to directly impact those who believe in Allah. Some examples:

Say: Obey Allah and the messenger. But if they turn away, lo! Allah loveth not the disbelievers (in His guidance). S. 3:32 Pickthall

And obey Allah and the messenger, that ye may find mercy. S. 3:132 Pickthall

These are the limits (imposed by) Allah. Whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow, where such will dwell for ever. That will be the great success. S. 4:13 Pickthall

They ask thee (O Muhammad) of the spoils of war. Say: The spoils of war belong to Allah and the messenger, so keep your duty to Allah, and adjust the matter of your difference, and obey Allah and His messenger, if ye are (true) believers. S. 8:1 Pickthall

It is not for any believer, man or woman, when God and His Messenger have decreed a matter, to have the choice in the affair. Whosoever disobeys God and His Messenger has gone astray into manifest error. S. 33:36 Arberry

O believers, obey God, and obey the Messenger, and do not make your own works vain. S. 47:33 Arberry

There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom. S. 48:17 Pickthall

Whoso obeyeth the messenger hath obeyed Allah, ... S. 4:80 Pickthall

Establish worship and pay the poor-due and obey the messenger, that haply ye may find mercy. S. 24:56 Pickthall

Those who swear fealty to thee [Muhammad] swear fealty in truth to God; God's hand is over their hands. Then whosoever breaks his oath breaks it but to his own hurt; and whoso fulfils his covenant made with God, God will give him a mighty wage. S. 48:10 Arberry

Whatsoever spoils of war God has given to His Messenger from the people of the cities belongs to God, and His Messenger, and the near kinsman, orphans, the needy and the traveller, so that it be not a thing taken in turns among the rich of you. Whatever the Messenger gives you, take; whatever he forbids you, give over. And fear God; surely God is terrible in retribution. S. 59:7 Arberry

And there are many more like these, see S. 4:59, 69; 5:92; 8:20, 24, 46; 9:71; 24:51-52, 54; 33:33, 71; 49:14; 58:13; 64:12, etc.

The Qur'an does not only make it mandatory to obey Muhammad's explicit commands (whether they are verses found in the Qur'an or Muhammad's own words, see S. 24:45, 57:9), it makes everything Muhammad does and says the standard to emulate:

Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled. Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) desire. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him: He was taught by one Mighty in Power, ... S. 53:2-5 Yusuf Ali

And verily, you (O Muhammad) are on an exalted standard of character. S. 68:4 Hilali & Khan

Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much. S. 33:21 Hilali & Khan

Based on verses like these, Muhammad is considered the perfect and divinely endorsed role model, and he is followed in the minutest details of life. To claim, therefore, that if he goes astray it will still not result in any harm to those who follow him in everything (S. 34:50), is hardly coherent.

As stated above, these verses do not yet posit a clear-cut contradiction to S. 34:50, but they are in considerable tension. The plain contradiction arises when we add the following verses into the equation:

And those who disbelieve say to those who believe: Follow our path and we will bear your wrongs. And never shall they be the bearers of any of their wrongs; most surely they are liars. S. 29:12 Shakir

That they may bear their burdens entirely on the day of resurrection and also of the burdens of those whom they lead astray without knowledge; now surely evil is what they bear. S. 16:25 Shakir

These verses make it clear that "following those who lead you astray" does not absolve you from your own responsibility. On Judgement Day, those leaders will not bear the punishment (burden) for your going astray. Nobody will be able to excuse himself completely with "but I only followed this or that false prophet or teacher". S. 16:25 seems to indicate that some part of the burdens of those who were led astray may be put on the one who had misled them, but it still shows that the remainder has to be shouldered by the person who followed the false prophet into transgression and disobedience to God. Thus, those who lead astray cause their followers to suffer divine punishment and eternal loss.

Therefore, Sura 34:50 ("If I go astray, I go astray only to my own loss"), together with the many verses that command believers to follow and obey Muhammad, strongly and obviously contradicts Sura 16:25 and 29:12.

 

 

My response:

Ladies and gentlemen I believe it is very clear that Jochen Katz is no more than a joker.  I know well that he is aware of the human-will and choice that Allah Almighty had Created in us, humans.  Instead of understanding the Philosophy and the Divine Wisdom the Noble Verses, he's instead acting like immature ignorants and claiming them as contradictions.  This is hilarious indeed.

I have written a good number of articles that deal with the big topic of the GOD Almighty Created-human-will and choice, Vs, the Misleading of GOD Almighty to those whom He dislikes very much and wants for them to be lead astray and eventually in Hell.

Before I present the articles, I'd like to point out few biblical verses that clearly shut up the joker's mouth regarding this issue:

GOD Almighty Leading people astray in the Bible:

1 Samuel 16:16 "Let our lord command his servants here to search for someone who can play the harp. He will play when the evil spirit from God comes upon you, and you will feel better."     GOD HAS AN EVIL SPIRIT?!  Obviously not, it's only metaphoric as mentioned above.

1 Samuel 18:10 "The next day an evil spirit from God came forcefully upon Saul. He was prophesying in his house, while David was playing the harp, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand..."  ANOTHER EVIL SPIRIT FROM GOD?!  Again, it is only metaphoric.

1 Samuel 19:9 "But an evil spirit from the LORD came upon Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the harp,..." ANOTHER EVIL SPIRIT FROM GOD?!

1 Kings 22:23 "God sent LYING SPIRITS to lie to people"  Does GOD lie?!

 

Any mature and responsible answer by the irresponsible writer?

 

 

Now to the Articles:

The satanic and evil beliefs and doings are ALLURING (feel right and good) to their people according to the Noble Quran.

Everything from good and bad that happens to us is determined by Allah Almighty.

How can a Muslim connect with GOD Almighty in life?  Six important points backed with Noble Verses that every Muslim must always keep in mind.

Is our destiny pre-determined by GOD?  Does GOD choose who is evil and who is good?   How come GOD didn't make all of us good if He is the "Most Merciful" and "Most Just"?

Did GOD create some Men and Jinns to be destined to hell?

After death, what would prevent a Muslim from entering Heaven?  Also, how long will the Disbelievers stay in Hell?

How does a Muslim get to Heaven, saved, reach a state of perfect harmony with God?

I liked your concept of God in Islam and that man can directly have fellowship with God.  But how does God stand the sin in man ? How does God see the sin between man and man?

 

 

He wrote:

[ Side remark: This is not a trivial contradiction of whether Allah's day equals 1000 or 50000 years, or whether Allah created the universe in six or eight days. This is a contradiction at the very core of the religion, i.e. what happens to those who follow a false prophet! ]

Suras 16:25 and 29:12 also play a significant role in a somewhat different but closely related contradiction which is discussed in the article Who Suffers the Consequence of Sins according to the Qur'an?

 

 

My response:

Those articles had been soundly debunked at:

1,000 or 50,000 years:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/my_03.htm  

http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/ma_numerical.htm

http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/0301.htm


Six or eight days of creation:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/my_04.htm

http://bismikaallahuma.org/Quran/Contra/Internal/i010.htm

http://www.understanding-islam.org/related/text.asp?type=article&aid=76

http://www.understanding-islam.org/related/text.asp?type=article&aid=4

http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/ma_six.htm


Consequences of sin:

http://bismikaallahuma.org/Quran/Contra/Internal/suffer_otak_engkau.htm

See also:

  1. The satanic and evil beliefs and doings are ALLURING (feel right and good) to their people according to the Noble Quran.
  2. Everything from good and bad that happens to us is determined by Allah Almighty.
  3. How can a Muslim connect with GOD Almighty in life?  Six important points backed with Noble Verses that every Muslim must always keep in mind.
  4. Is our destiny pre-determined by GOD?  Does GOD choose who is evil and who is good?   How come GOD didn't make all of us good if He is the "Most Merciful" and "Most Just"?
  5. Did GOD create some Men and Jinns to be destined to hell?
  6. After death, what would prevent a Muslim from entering Heaven?  Also, how long will the Disbelievers stay in Hell?
  7. How does a Muslim get to Heaven, saved, reach a state of perfect harmony with God?
  8. I liked your concept of God in Islam and that man can directly have fellowship with God.  But how does God stand the sin in man ? How does God see the sin between man and man?

 

 

He wrote:

There are a considerable number of additional verses which state that those who follow others who are astray (the reference is usually to the ancestors) are not therefore excused as being only victims, but are condemned by Allah for following them into falsehood:

When it is said to them: "Follow what God hath revealed:" They say: "Nay! we shall follow the ways of our fathers." What! even though their fathers were void of wisdom and guidance? S. 2:170; cf. 5:104

They said: "Comest thou to us, that we may worship God alone, and give up the cult of our fathers? bring us what thou threatenest us with, if so be that thou tellest the truth!" He said: "Punishment and wrath have already come upon you from your Lord: dispute ye with me over names which ye have devised - ye and your fathers, - without authority from God? then wait: I am amongst you, also waiting." S. 7:70-71

And when they commit an indecency they say: We found our fathers doing this, and Allah has enjoined it on us. Say: Surely Allah does not enjoin indecency; do you say against Allah what you do not know? S. 7:28

So be not thou in doubt concerning that which these (folk) worship. They worship only as their fathers worshipped aforetime. Lo! we shall pay them their whole due unabated. S. 11:109

We bestowed aforetime on Abraham his rectitude of conduct, and well were We acquainted with him. Behold! he said to his father and his people, "What are these images, to which ye are (so assiduously) devoted?" They said, "We found our fathers worshipping them." He said, "Indeed ye have been in manifest error - ye and your fathers." S. 21:51-54

Lo! We have appointed it a torment for wrong-doers. Lo! it is a tree that springeth in the heart of hell. Its crop is as it were the heads of devils And lo! they verily must eat thereof, and fill (their) bellies therewith. And afterward, lo! thereupon they have a drink of boiling water. And afterward, lo! their return is surely unto hell. They indeed found their fathers astray, But they make haste (to follow) in their footsteps. And verily most of the men of old went astray before them, And verily We sent among them warners. Then see the nature of the consequence for those warned, S. 37:63-73 Pickthall

Here, these people are following the religion taught to them by their fathers, and some even doing shameful acts passed on to them by their forebears, so they have been misled. Yet, Allah still condemns them for these beliefs and practices, and they will still have to bear their full punishment (S. 11:109). It does not even help them to claim that it was Allah who enjoined it on them (S. 7:28), perhaps through some prophet in the past who claimed to bring commands from Allah, but who was actually a false prophet.

People who follow false teachers or prophets will suffer loss and punishment caused at least in part by those who led them astray. This is a common sense principle which is contradicted by Sura 34:50, a severe error and a glaring contradiction in the Qur'an.

 

My response:

First of all, Allah Almighty never Condemned anyone for what his fathers did.  Let us look again at Noble Verse 11:109 that Jochen Katz provided above:

So be not thou in doubt concerning that which these (folk) worship. They worship only as their fathers worshipped aforetime. Lo! we shall pay them their whole due unabated. S. 11:109

The Noble Verse is crystal clear and really requires no further commenting.  The pagans during Prophet Muhammad's times rejected the Divine Truth of Islam and insisted on worshiping idols as their fathers did.  Therefor, they suffered the consequences.   It was still their human-will and choice that I talked above that led them to Hell.


The joker's comments above: "Yet, Allah still condemns them for these beliefs and practices, and they will still have to bear their full punishment (S. 11:109)." are clear open lies.   Anyone with the least amount of brain clearly sees that Allah Almighty is not punishing the sons for what the fathers did, but rather punishing the sons for INSISTING on following the evil of their fathers!

 

Why is this difficult for the irresponsible writer to see?  It is definitely beyond me!

 

And as I said above, ladies and gentlemen I believe it is very clear that Jochen Katz is no more than a joker.  I know well that he is aware of the human-will and choice that Allah Almighty had Created in us, humans.  Instead of understanding the Philosophy and the Divine Wisdom the Noble Verses, he's instead acting like immature ignorants and claiming them as contradictions.  This is hilarious indeed.

I have written a good number of articles that deal with the big topic of the GOD Almighty Created-human-will and choice, Vs, the Misleading of GOD Almighty to those whom He dislikes very much and wants for them to be lead astray and eventually in Hell.

Before I present the articles, I'd like to point out few biblical verses that clearly shut up the joker's mouth regarding this issue:

GOD Almighty Leading people astray in the Bible:

1 Samuel 16:16 "Let our lord command his servants here to search for someone who can play the harp. He will play when the evil spirit from God comes upon you, and you will feel better."     GOD HAS AN EVIL SPIRIT?!  Obviously not, it's only metaphoric as mentioned above.

1 Samuel 18:10 "The next day an evil spirit from God came forcefully upon Saul. He was prophesying in his house, while David was playing the harp, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand..."  ANOTHER EVIL SPIRIT FROM GOD?!  Again, it is only metaphoric.

1 Samuel 19:9 "But an evil spirit from the LORD came upon Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the harp,..." ANOTHER EVIL SPIRIT FROM GOD?!

1 Kings 22:23 "God sent LYING SPIRITS to lie to people"  Does GOD lie?!

 

Any mature and responsible answer by the irresponsible writer?

 

 

Now to the Articles:

The satanic and evil beliefs and doings are ALLURING (feel right and good) to their people according to the Noble Quran.

Everything from good and bad that happens to us is determined by Allah Almighty.

How can a Muslim connect with GOD Almighty in life?  Six important points backed with Noble Verses that every Muslim must always keep in mind.

Is our destiny pre-determined by GOD?  Does GOD choose who is evil and who is good?   How come GOD didn't make all of us good if He is the "Most Merciful" and "Most Just"?

Did GOD create some Men and Jinns to be destined to hell?

After death, what would prevent a Muslim from entering Heaven?  Also, how long will the Disbelievers stay in Hell?

How does a Muslim get to Heaven, saved, reach a state of perfect harmony with God?

I liked your concept of God in Islam and that man can directly have fellowship with God.  But how does God stand the sin in man ? How does God see the sin between man and man?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Responses to all of the so-called "contradictions" in the Noble Quran.

My Rebuttals, and exposing the lies of the Answering Islam team section.

Rebuttals to Jochen Katz' articles.

The Scientific Miracles in the Noble Quran section.

The Dumpster section.

More deliberate and preposterous lies by Jochen Katz and another clown of his, Quennel Gale!

Rebuttal to Jochen Katz' 2 Samuel 1:2-16 about justifying David's selective murders.  Further exposing his ridiculous bias and cover-ups to the Bible's unjust murders.

X-Rated Pornography in the Bible.

Pedophilia against 3-year old slave girls in the Bible.


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