Response to Sam Shamoun: The Jewish Messiah And The Prophet of Islam

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Response to Sam Shamoun

The Jewish Messiah And The Prophet of Islam

Part II

By
Sami Zaatari

This is a continuation of my rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's article the Jewish Messiah and the prophet of Islam which can be found here:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/messiah.htm

He Wrote

5-Sign Unto Mankind

The universal ministry of Christ has been one of the most attacked aspects of his mission. Most Muslims believe that Christ was not a universal prophet like Muhammad, rather similar to prophets before him, he was limited to his own people.

To prove their point Muslims extract certain passages from the Bible, which on the surface would seem to confirm that Christ's mission was indeed limited to Israel (Cf. Matthew 10:5-6).

This practice however, stands in neglect of scores of other verses that show quite conclusively that the mission of Jesus was geared toward the whole of mankind. (The reader may refer to John 4:40-42 as one example of this fact.)

My Response

Actually if you read the Bible, you see that at the beggining he was specifically sent to the lost sheep of Israel, later on we see Jesus supposedly being sent for everyone. So the fact is that Jesus was initially sent to the lost sheep of Israel only.

The Bible is also crystal clear that Jesus was specifically sent the lost sheep of Israel only, so it seems the Bible is in contradiction with it self and that some Biblical authors wanted to evolve Jesus' character, let us read Matthew 15:24:

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

How more clear can it become? So the fact is Jesus said he sent to the lost sheep of Israel, not the world, so this is a problem the Christians have to settle.

He Wrote

What the Muslims also seem to overlook is the point that the Quran itself bears testimony to the universal mission of Christ:

He said: "so (it will be): thy Lord saith, 'That is easy for me: and (we wish) to appoint him as a sign unto men and mercy from us.'" S. 19:21

And (remember) who guarded her chastity: "We breathed into her of our Spirit and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples." S. 21:91

Yusuf Ali states in two separate footnotes that Jesus was meant to be a sign for the world:

"Mary the mother of Jesus, chastity was her special virtue: with a son of virgin birth, she and Jesus became a miracle to all nations. This was the virtue with which they (both Mary and Jesus) resisted evil." (1:815, f. 2748)

My Response

Muslims have not overlooked anything, it seems you have overlooked the passages you just posted, and you intentionally once again tried to trick the readers. Now notice what both verses say, I will post them again:

He said: "so (it will be): thy Lord saith, 'That is easy for me: and (we wish) to appoint him as a sign unto men and mercy from us.'" S. 19:21

And (remember) who guarded her chastity: "We breathed into her of our Spirit and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples." S. 21:91

Now note both verses say that Jesus was sent as sign for mankind, the verses do not say that Jesus was sent to preach to ALL OF MANKIND. The verse does not say that Jesus was sent as a prophet for ALL OF MANKIND. So hence Shamoun intentionally tried to trick the reader, such shady scholarship writing is devilish, and un-excusable and Shamoun must know better, but he worships satan in disguise so hence he has to act like satan.

He Wrote

The mission of Jesus is announced in two ways (1) he was to be a sign to men: his wonderful birth and wonderful life were to turn an ungodly world to Allah: and (2) his mission was to bring solace and salvation to the repentant ..." (1:748, f. 2473)

My Response

Yes, does it say his mission was to preach to the whole world? No, it does not say that, Jesus was sign unto man, not a prophet for all of man. There is a difference in being a sign unto all of men, and being sent for all of mankind to preach to them.

He Wrote

Ar-Razi, commenting on the different types of elections, notes:

"As for the second type of election... it is that God granted her (Mary) Jesus without a father. He moreover, made Jesus speak as soon as he was separated from her, so that he testified to her innocence from all suspicion. God also made her and her son a sign for humankind." (2:126)

Ibn Ishaq cites Muhammad as affirming Christ's universal mission. Commenting on a letter that was written by Muhammad on the methods his companions were to use in evangelizing the nations, Ishaq quotes from it and says:

"God has sent me (Muhammad) to all men, so take a message from me, God have mercy on you. Do not hang back from me as the disciples hung back from Jesus son of Mary. They asked how they hung back and he said, 'He called them to a task similar to that which I have called you. Those who had to go a short journey were pleased and accepted. Those who had a long journey before them were displeased and refused to go, and Jesus complained of them to God. (Tabari. From that very night) every one of them was able to speak the language of the people to whom he was sent.' (Tabari. Jesus said, 'This is a thing that God has determined that you should do, so go.'

"Those whom Jesus son of Mary sent, both disciples and those who came after them, in the land were: Peter the disciple and Paul with him, (Paul belonged to the followers and was not a disciple) to Rome. Andrew and Matthew to the land of the cannibals; Thomas to the land of Babel, which is in the land of the east; Philip to Carthage and Africa; John to Ephesus the city of the young men of the cave; James to Jerusalem which is Aelia the city of the sanctuary; Bartholomew to Arabia which is the land of Hijaz; Simon to the land of Berbers; Judah who was not one of the disciples was put in place of Judas" (Sira Rasul Allah, p.653)

My Response

Note not sinle thing in which Shamoun posted showed that Jesus was sent to mankind. Jesus was a sign for man, not a prophet for all of man. Secondly Jesus sending his students to other far countries does not mean that Jesus is sent for the world, this is some more tricks that Shamoun is trying to play. What he forgets is that Jesus was sent to preach to a specific people, not to all, later on he sent his students to go preach to others, not at first. So hence there is a big difference, Jesus sent students to preach to others, that does not mean Jesus was sent for all man. If I am a teacher for one class, and I give my students permission to go and tutor students from other classes from what they have learned from me, does this mean I am a teacher for the other classes? No, it does not make me a teacher for other classes, because my job is to specifically teach my own class, not others.

He Wrote

Not only does Muhammad testify to Jesus' universal ministry via his disciples, but also indirectly acknowledges Luke's account of the Holy Spirit coming upon the believers on the day of Pentecost, giving them the ability to communicate in all the different languages of the people at that time. (Acts 2:1-13)

Ishaq also affirms that Paul was commissioned by God. This forces the Muslims to not only accept the universal mission of Christ, but to also acknowledge the Pauline Epistles and Luke's writings as authoritative and inspired by God. Obviously, God would not inspire Paul or Luke in writing letters that are brimming with errors. Accepting these writings would then amount to an acknowledgment of the divinity of Jesus Christ the Lord.

To counter this charge, Muslims deny the inspiration of the Apostles, i.e., that the disciples of Christ were commissioned to write the inspired writings such as those found in the New Testament.

My Response

Shamoun commits quite a few fallacies, I will start with the biggest one which is when he stated:

Ishaq also affirms that Paul was commissioned by God. This forces the Muslims to not only accept the universal mission of Christ, but to also acknowledge the Pauline Epistles and Luke's writings as authoritative and inspired by God

I must say Shamoun is very arrogant, and very stupid. To start off with, Muslims are not forced to do anything, who is Ishaq? Is he a prophet? Is he some messenger of God? Ishaq is a nobody, im not trying to be offensive, but Shamoun is acting like Ishaq is some huge authoritive figure in which all Muslims must follow, which is not true. Muslims follow the Quran, sunnah and hadith of the prophet, not the words of scholars and Shamoun knows this. Shamoun just wants to try and confuse his readers, Shamoun very well knows Muslims dont have to believe in a SINGLE word of what is written in Ibn Ishaqs book, not one single word. So Shamoun has just showed himself to be a fool once again. Shamoun's second fallacy is the argument of APPEALING TO AUTHORITY. This is when you base your argument on what a scholar says. Shamoun always and constantly attacks Muslims when they quote Christian scholars against him, he always shouts APPEAL TO AUTHORITY! APPEAL TO AUTHORITY! Yet now he has no problem in doing it.

Now Scholars can say whatever they like about Paul, but I see what the Quran says about certain issues, not scholars. So I fund it funny that Shamoun overlooks the Quran and takes the word of a historian as authoritive ranking higher than the Quran! The Quran states that:

1- Jesus is not God

2- Jesus is not the son of God

3- Jesus did not die on the cross hence denying the resurection

Now question to the reader, does Paul agree with those three points or disagree? He contradicts each single one of those points! So I could care less to what a scholar has to say, I look at what Allah says and Allah denies the core doctrine of what Paul taught! So hence Shamoun is playing dumb! Paul said your deeds are like rags if you dont believe in the resurection of Jesus, well the Quran says he didnt die hence the Quran clears this lie up hence Allah certainly disagrees with Paul and denies his teachings. So hence I dont need to look at what scholars say on Paul, I have the Quran which denies the teachings of Paul and calls it blasphemy, so hence according to the Quran Paul is a liar, so hence God calls Paul a liar! I take the word of God first, not some scholar.

Now also let read what Ishaq exactly said:

Those whom Jesus son of Mary sent, both disciples and those who came after them, in the land were: Peter the disciple and Paul with him, (Paul belonged to the followers and was not a disciple)

So as you see for yourself, all Ishaq does is call Paul a follower, NOT A DISCIPLE OF JESUS. Now why is this important? This is important because it proves that since Paul was not directly under Jesus then this shows that Paul could and did mis understand what Jesus taught, it shows that since Paul was not directly under Jesus that Paul mixed the message of Jesus and started inventing things to which he thought was the truth. Now note, Ishaq calls Paul a follower, this does not mean that Paul was a real follower of Jesus! Being a follower of someone does not automatically make you correct, there are several Muslims who claim to follow Islam but dont even follow the rules and so on and make up their own rules and say ah yes this is Islam. So hence Paul may have been sincere, he may have been a follower of Jesus, but however so, he still mixed up the truth of Jesus and made up lies most likely which were not intentional since he thought he was doing something right. So hence Shamoun also mis interprets what Ishaq says!

Ishaq never said that Paul was a true follower, he just called him a follower. Ishaq never said Paul's teachings were true. So hence there is a problem for Shamoun, so hence Shamoun has purposely tried to trick his readers. The fact is this, Paul was a follower of Jesus, however so Paul mis-understood the message of Jesus and started applying his own thoughts and believed they were true. So hence Islamic scholars calling Paul a follower of Jesus causes no problems for the Muslims, it does not mean that Paul was a TRUE follower of Jesus, so hence Shamoun mis-interpreted Ishaq and attacked straw man.

So Muslims are not forced to accept Paul or his teachings, you intentionally tried to trick the readers, both Muslims and Christians, and even just say you were correct, that Muslim scholars do say Paul is a true man, then they and you are wrong because the Quran refutes that.

He Wrote

To counter this charge, Muslims deny the inspiration of the Apostles, i.e., that the disciples of Christ were commissioned to write the inspired writings such as those found in the New Testament.

Again, this charge finds no Quranic support, but to the contrary, the Muslim Book testifies to both the authority and preservation of the Apostolic testimony:

Behold! God said: 'O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to myself and clear thee (of falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.'" S. 3:55

M. Pickhtall's translation of this verse states that God would be "setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection."

and when I (God) inspired the disciples, (saying): Believe in me and my messenger (Jesus), they said: we believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto thee). S. 5:111 M. Pickhtall

O ye who believe! Be ye helpers of God: As said Jesus the son of Mary to the Disciples, "who will be my helpers to (the work of) God?" Said the Disciples, "we are God's helpers!" Then a portion of the children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved: But we gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed. S. 61:14

My Response

Yes, the verses are talking about his disciples, was Paul one of them? No he was not so Paul is thrown out. Secondly Let me post the passages which Shamoun posted:

These are not the Christians, because you dont follow Jesus, what is the message of Jesus in the Quran? The message of Jesus in the Quran is not the same one you believe in, so hence you dont follow Jesus according to this verse and the Quran, so dont mis-interpret my book. Shamoun is trying to say look the verse says those who follow Jesus will be superior to those who dont until judgement day implying these are Christians. What he forgets to mention is that when the Quran is saying follow Jesus, it means following the message that we find in the Quran, and also believing in Muhammad, because what was Jesus' message in the Quran? He stated that a prophet who's name is Ahmed will come after him, Shamoun and every Christians reject this therefore they dont follow Jesus and dont fall under this verse. So Shamoun once again tried to pull a fast one, he tried to trick his readers, he mis-interpreted again, what can you say? He is a missionary.

The same goes with the other passage he posted.

He Wrote

The Quran testifies that the Apostles were given the same inspiration (wahi) that the earlier Prophets and Muhammad afterwards were given. It also states that God would insure that the true disciples of Jesus Christ would prevail and dominate till the Resurrection Day. Since the Day of Resurrection has not arrived, this would mean that true Christianity still exists. This would also compel us to accept the Bible as authoritative and inspired since it is the only testimony given by the God-inspired Apostles to their followers, a testimony that Allah himself said would remain and prevail against the attacks of the unbelievers. For a Muslim to say that the Bible has been corrupted would mean that God failed to keep his promise and that the Quran is wrong.

My Response

LOLLLLLLLLLL, you see how the idiot intentionally mis-interprets our scripture? You see how the coward missionary intenitionally tries to trick his readers? Well you have already been refuted. I told you the message of Jesus is found in the Quran, you reject it therefore you are not true Christianity, therefore you are wrong, not God. God keeps his promise, the ones who will prevail are the MUSLIMS because it is us who keep the true message of Jesus and follow him, NOT YOU. You follow a liar named Paul, you follow satan, you follow fabrications. Allah never said Jesus is God, Allah never said Jesus is son of God, Allah never said Jesus came to die for you. So hence you are wrong, dont mis-interpret the Quran because your making a fool out of yourself.

Well I could just stop here since in part 1 and now part 2 of the rebuttal, he has been caught lying, intentionally mis-interpreting Islamic scripture, I could just stop now because how can we trust him? How can we continue to read a liar? However so, since I enjoy destroying you and your arguments, I shall continue to expose you and your lies. Ladies and gentleman, this is the face of Christianity, a cowardly lying missionary named Sam Shamoun! Good job Sam! You are representing your faith very nicely!

He Wrote

Thus the Apostolic testimony recorded in the Holy Bible can be trusted, and it is within these inspired pages that the universal mission of Christ is confirmed:

"Again Jesus spoke to them saying, 'I am the light of the world; he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." John 8:12

"As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." John 9:5

"... and I, when I am lifted up from the Earth, will draw all men to myself." John 12:32

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him." John 3:16-17

After examining the qualities just presented, one still has not fully exhausted all the attributes and titles given to Christ in the Quran and authentic Traditions. Rather than listing all these qualities we will enumerate some of the most important ones and note the implications that they bear on the overall question of who Christ really is.

My Response

Yes, and you have been exposed for intentionally mis-interpreting the Islamic scripture, so thank you for that. Let me say it again, when the Quran mentions the true believer of Jesus, these believers dont believe he is God, and they also believe in the prophet Muhammad, because Jesus in the Quran said a prophet would come after him named Ahmed, Shamoun and his Christian freinds reject this so hence they are not the TRUE believers of Jesus and dont fit the category in which the Quran mentions. The true believers are the Muslims, we believe in the message of Jesus, and the prophet Muhammad, we are the ones who will always prevail until judgement day, not you who mix up his message and invent lies.

He Wrote

Spirit Of God

As mentioned earlier, both the Quran and Traditions refer to Jesus as the Spirit of God (Ruh-Ullah). While it is true that the title given to Christ in S. 4:171, "a spirit from Him" (Ruhun-Minhu), implies that there are others who could rightly be called spirits from God (i.e. Adam), two other passages make it clear however that Christ is the Spirit of God incarnate:

"And (remember) her who guarded her chastity; We breathed into her of our Spirit, and We made her and her son a Sign for all peoples." S. 21:91

"And Mary daughter of Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of our Spirit; and she testified to the truths of the words of her Lord and of His revelations, and was one of the devout (servants)." S. 66:12

Al Qashani said, "Allah purposed to cleanse the body of Isa (Jesus) from inherent impurities and he was an incarnate spirit in an ideal body, he (Allah) cleansed his spirit and purified him from being influenced by natural instincts and environmental characteristics, so that he could be supported by the Holy Spirit on whose form he was." (3:12-13)

My Response

Spirit of Allah does not mean Jesus is part of Allah, it basically means a soul from Allah, when Allah breathed his spirit into Mary this basically means he breathed a soul which was Jesus. Let me once again quote tafsir Ibn Kathir to view his commentary on what the spirit means and if it makes Jesus divine:

From Tafsir ibn kathir:

Allah forbids the People of the Scriptures from going to extremes in religion, which is a common trait of theirs, especially among the Christians. The Christians exaggerated over `Isa until they elevated him above the grade that Allah gave him. They elevated him from the rank of prophethood to being a god, whom they worshipped just as they worshipped Allah. They exaggerated even more in the case of those who they claim were his followers, claiming that they were inspired, thus following every word they uttered whether true or false, be it guidance or misguidance, truth or lies. This is why Allah said,

[ÇÊøóÎóÐõæÇú ÃóÍúÈóÜÑóåõãú æóÑõåúÈóÜäóåõãú ÃóÑúÈóÇÈÇð ãøöä Ïõæäö Çááøóåö]

(They took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah.) Imam Ahmad recorded that Ibn `Abbas said that `Umar said that the Messenger of Allah said,

áóÇ ÊõØúÑõæäöí ßóãóÇ ÃóØúÑóÊö ÇáäøóÕóÇÑóìö ÚöíÓóì ÇÈúäó ãóÑúíóãó. ÝóÅöäøóãóÇ ÃóäóÇ ÚóÈúÏñÝóÞõæáõæÇ: ÚóÈúÏõÇááåö æóÑóÓõæáõå»

(Do not unduly praise me like the Christians exaggerated over `Isa, son of Maryam. Verily, I am only a servant, so say, `Allah's servant and His Messenger.') This is the wording of Al-Bukhari. Imam Ahmad recorded that Anas bin Malik said that a man once said, "O Muhammad! You are our master and the son of our master, our most righteous person and the son of our most righteous person...'' The Messenger of Allah said,

«íóÇ ÃóíøõåóÇ ÇáäøóÇÓõ Úóáóíúßõãú ÈöÞóæúáößõãú¡ æóáóÇ íóÓúÊóåúæöíóäøóßõãõ ÇáÔøóíúØóÇäõ¡ÃóäóÇ ãõÍóãøóÏõ Èúäõ ÚóÈúÏöÇááåö¡ ÚóÈúÏõÇááåö æóÑóÓõæáõåõ¡ æóÇááåö ãóÇ ÃõÍöÈøõ Ãóäú ÊóÑúÝóÚõæäöí ÝóæúÞó ãóäúÒöáóÊöí ÇáøóÊöí ÃóäúÒóáóäöí Çááåõ ÚóÒøó æóÌóá»

(O people! Say what you have to say, but do not allow Shaytan to trick you. I am Muhammad bin `Abdullah, Allah's servant and Messenger. By Allah! I do not like that you elevate me above the rank that Allah has granted me.) Allah's statement,

[æóáÇó ÊóÞõæáõæÇú Úóáóì Çááøóåö ÅöáÇøó ÇáúÍóÞøó]

(nor say of Allah except the truth.) means, do not lie and claim that Allah has a wife or a son, Allah is far holier than what they attribute to Him. Allah is glorified, praised, and honored in His might, grandure and greatness, and there is no deity worthy of worship nor Lord but Him. Allah said;

[ÅöäøóãóÇ ÇáúãóÓöíÍõ ÚöíÓóì ÇÈúäõ ãóÑúíóãó ÑóÓõæáõ Çááøóåö æóßóáöãóÊõåõ ÃóáúÞóÜåóÇ Åöáóì ãóÑúíóãó æóÑõæÍñ ãøöäúåõ]

(Al-Masih `Isa, son of Maryam, was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him;) `Isa is only one of Allah's servants and one of His creatures. Allah said to him, `Be', and he was, and He sent him as a Messenger. `Isa was a word from Allah that He bestowed on Maryam, meaning He created him with the word `Be' that He sent with Jibril to Maryam. Jibril blew the life of `Isa into Maryam by Allah's leave, and `Isa came to existence as a result. This incident was in place of the normal conception between man and woman that results in children. This is why `Isa was a word and a Ruh (spirit) created by Allah, as he had no father to conceive him. Rather, he came to existence through the word that Allah uttered, `Be,' and he was, through the life that Allah sent with Jibril. Allah said,

[ãøóÇ ÇáúãóÓöíÍõ ÇÈúäõ ãóÑúíóãó ÅöáÇøó ÑóÓõæáñ ÞóÏú ÎóáóÊú ãöä ÞóÈúáöåö ÇáÑøõÓõáõ æóÃõãøõåõ ÕöÏøöíÞóÉñ ßóÇäóÇ íóÃúßõáÇóäö ÇáØøóÚóÇãó]

(Al-Masih [`Isa], son of Maryam, was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother [Maryam] was a Siddiqah. They both ate food.) And Allah said,

[Åöäøó ãóËóáó ÚöíÓóì ÚöäÏó Çááøóåö ßóãóËóáö ÁóÇÏóãó ÎóáóÞóåõ ãöä ÊõÑóÇÈò Ëõãøó ÞóÇáó áóåõ ßõä Ýóíóßõæäõ ]

(Verily, the likeness of `Isa before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be! Ü and he was.)

[æóÇáøóÊöì ÃóÍúÕóäóÊú ÝóÑúÌóåóÇ ÝóäóÝóÎúäóÇ ÝöíåóÇ ãöä ÑøõæÍöäóÇ

æóÌóÚóáúäóÜåóÇ æóÇÈúäóåóÂ ÁóÇíóÉð áøöáúÚóÜáóãöíäó ]

(And she who guarded her chastity, We breathed into her (garment) and We made her and her son [`Isa] a sign for all that exits.) (21:91)

[æóãóÑúíóãó ÇÈúäóÉó ÚöãúÑóÇäó ÇáøóÊöì ÃóÍúÕóäóÊú ÝóÑúÌóåóÇ]

(And Maryam, the daughter of `Imran who guarded her chastity,) and Allah said concerning the Messiah,

[Åöäú åõæó ÅöáÇøó ÚóÈúÏñ ÃóäúÚóãúäóÇ Úóáóíúåö]

(He [`Isa] was not more than a servant. We granted Our favor to him.)

The Meaning of "His Word and a spirit from Him

`Abdur-Razzaq narrated that Ma`mar said that Qatadah said that the Ayah,

[æóßóáöãóÊõåõ ÃóáúÞóÜåóÇ Åöáóì ãóÑúíóãó æóÑõæÍñ ãøöäúåõ]

(And His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him;) means,

He said,

[ßõäøó]

(Be) and he was. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ahmad bin Sinan Al-Wasiti said that he heard Shadh bin Yahya saying about Allah's statement,

[æóßóáöãóÊõåõ ÃóáúÞóÜåóÇ Åöáóì ãóÑúíóãó æóÑõæÍñ ãøöäúåõ]

(and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him;) "`Isa was not the word. Rather, `Isa came to existence because of the word.'' Al-

Bukhari recorded that `Ubadah bin As-Samit said that the Prophet said,

«ãóäú ÔóåöÏó Ãóäú áóÇ Åöáåó ÅöáøóÇ Çááåõ¡ æóÍúÏóåõ áóÇ ÔóÑöíßó áóåõ¡ æóÃóäøó ãõÍóãøóÏðÇ ÚóÈúÏõåõ æóÑóÓõæáõåõ¡ æóÃóäøó ÚöíÓóì ÚóÈúÏõÇááåö æóÑóÓõæáõåõ æóßóáöãóÊõåõ ÃóáúÞóÇåóÇ Åöáì ãóÑúíóãó æóÑõæÍñ ãöäúåõ¡ æóÃóäøó ÇáúÌóäøóÉó ÍóÞøñ¡ æóÇáäøóÇÑó ÍóÞøñ¡ ÃóÏúÎóáóåõ Çááåõ ÇáúÌóäøóÉó Úóáóì ãóÇ ßóÇäó ãöäó ÇáúÚóãóá»

(If anyone testifies that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger, and that `Isa is Allah's servant and Messenger and His Word which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true and Hell is true, then Allah will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he performed.) In another narration, the Prophet said,

«ãöäú ÃóÈúæóÇÈö ÇáúÌóäøóÉö ÇáËøóãóÇäöíøóÉö íóÏúÎõáõ ãöäú ÃóíøöåóÇ ÔóÇÁ»

(...through any of the eight doors of Paradise he wishes.) Muslim also recorded it. Therefore, `Ruh from Allah', in the Ayah and the Hadith is similar to Allah's statement,

[æóÓóÎøóÑó áóßõãú ãøóÇ Ýöì ÇáÓøóãóÜæóÊö æóãóÇ Ýöì ÇáÇøñÑúÖö ÌóãöíÚÇð ãøöäúåõ]

(And has subjected to you all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth; it is all from Him.) meaning, from His creation. `from Him' does not mean that it is a part of Him, as the Christians claim, may Allah's continued curses be upon them. Saying that something is from Allah, such as the spirit of Allah, the she-camel of Allah or the House of Allah, is meant to honor such items. Allah said,

[åóÜÐöåö äóÇÞóÉõ Çááøóåö]

(This is the she-camel of Allah...) and,

[æóØóåøöÑú ÈóíúÊöìó áöáØøóÂÆöÝöíäó]

(and sanctify My House for those who circumambulate it.) An authentic Hadith states,

«ÝóÃóÏúÎõáõ Úóáóì ÑóÈøöí Ýöí ÏóÇÑöå»

(I will enter on my Lord in His Home) All these examples are meant to honor such items when they are attributed to Allah in this manner. Allah said,

[ÝóÜóÇãöäõæÇú ÈöÇááøóåö æóÑóÓõæáöåö]

(so believe in Allah and His Messengers.) believe that Allah is One and Alone and that He does not have a son or wife. Know and be certain that `Isa is the servant and Messenger of Allah. Allah said after that,

[æóáÇó ÊóÞõæáõæÇú ËóáóÜËóÉñ]

(Say not: "Three!") do not elevate `Isa and his mother to be gods with Allah. Allah is far holier than what they attribute to Him. In Surat Al-Ma'idah (chapter 5), Allah said,

áøóÞóÏú ßóÝóÑó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÞóÇáõæÇú Åöäøó Çááøóåó ËóÜáöËõ ËóáóÜËóÉò æóãóÇ ãöäú ÅöáóÜåò ÅöáÇøó ÅöáóÜåñ æóÍöÏñ]

(Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allah is the third of the three.'' But there is none who has the right to be worshipped but One God.) Allah said by the end of the same Surah,

[æóÅöÐú ÞóÇáó Çááøóåõ íÚöíÓóì ÇÈúäó ãóÑúíóãó ÃóÁóäÊó ÞõáÊó áöáäøóÇÓö ÇÊøóÎöÐõæäöì]

(And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O `Isa, son of Maryam!

Did you say unto men: `Worship me''') and in its beginning,

[áøóÞóÏú ßóÝóÑó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÞóÂáõæÇú Åöäøó Çááøóåó åõæó ÇáúãóÓöíÍõ ÇÈúäõ ãóÑúíóãó]

(Surely, in disbelief are they who say that Allah is the Messiah, son of Maryam.) The Christians, may Allah curse them, have no limit to their disbelief because of their ignorance, so their deviant statements and their misguidance grows. Some of them believe that `Isa is Allah, some believe that he is one in a trinity and some believe that he is the son of Allah. Their beliefs and creeds are numerous and contradict each other, prompting some people to say that if ten Christians meet, they would end up with eleven sects!

So as you can see, Shamoun has no case. The Islamic sources refute him.

He Wrote

Ibn A'ta states, "The most excellent plants are those whose fruits are like Isa, the Spirit of God." (3:13)

Ibn Arabi's statement is perhaps the closest acknowledgement any Muslim has ever made in relation to Jesus' Deity: "Surely," he said, "He has no equal. He is the Spirit and the Son of the Spirit, and Mary is His mother." (Quoted by Robert Payne in The History of Islam, p.83)

When we keep in mind that God is a Spirit (c.f. John 4:24) and Christ is the Spirit and the Spirit's Son, this makes Christ God, the Son of God!

Ibn Abbas proclaims, "As it was the Spirit which was breathed into him and the Holy One is Allah, so he is the Spirit of Allah." (3:13)

My Response

Ibn Arabis statement contradicts Allahs very statement when Allah says:

019.035
YUSUFALI: It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.

So maybe Ibn Arabis should have consulted the Quran before making such remarks. As for what Ibn Abbas says, there is nuthing wrong with that, Jesus is a spirit from from Allah, a spirit of Allah. It does not mean Jesus is part of Allah or is Allah, here is the tafsir once again from Ibn Kathir:

The Meaning of "His Word and a spirit from Him

`Abdur-Razzaq narrated that Ma`mar said that Qatadah said that the Ayah,

[æóßóáöãóÊõåõ ÃóáúÞóÜåóÇ Åöáóì ãóÑúíóãó æóÑõæÍñ ãøöäúåõ]

(And His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him;) means,

He said,

[ßõäøó]

(Be) and he was. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ahmad bin Sinan Al-Wasiti said that he heard Shadh bin Yahya saying about Allah's statement,

[æóßóáöãóÊõåõ ÃóáúÞóÜåóÇ Åöáóì ãóÑúíóãó æóÑõæÍñ ãøöäúåõ]

(and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him;) "`Isa was not the word. Rather, `Isa came to existence because of the word.'' Al-

Bukhari recorded that `Ubadah bin As-Samit said that the Prophet said,

«ãöäú ÃóÈúæóÇÈö ÇáúÌóäøóÉö ÇáËøóãóÇäöíøóÉö íóÏúÎõáõ ãöäú ÃóíøöåóÇ ÔóÇÁ»

(...through any of the eight doors of Paradise he wishes.) Muslim also recorded it. Therefore, `Ruh from Allah', in the Ayah and the Hadith is similar to Allah's statement,

[æóÓóÎøóÑó áóßõãú ãøóÇ Ýöì ÇáÓøóãóÜæóÊö æóãóÇ Ýöì ÇáÇøñÑúÖö ÌóãöíÚÇð ãøöäúåõ]

[åóÜÐöåö äóÇÞóÉõ Çááøóåö]

(This is the she-camel of Allah...) and,

[æóØóåøöÑú ÈóíúÊöìó áöáØøóÂÆöÝöíäó]

(and sanctify My House for those who circumambulate it.) An authentic Hadith states,

«ÝóÃóÏúÎõáõ Úóáóì ÑóÈøöí Ýöí ÏóÇÑöå»

(I will enter on my Lord in His Home) All these examples are meant to honor such items when they are attributed to Allah in this manner. Allah said,

[ÝóÜóÇãöäõæÇú ÈöÇááøóåö æóÑóÓõæáöåö]

[æóáÇó ÊóÞõæáõæÇú ËóáóÜËóÉñ]

(Say not: "Three!") do not elevate `Isa and his mother to be gods with Allah. Allah is far holier than what they attribute to Him. In Surat Al-Ma'idah (chapter 5), Allah said,

(Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allah is the third of the three.'' But there is none who has the right to be worshipped but One God.) Allah said by the end of the same Surah,

[æóÅöÐú ÞóÇáó Çááøóåõ íÚöíÓóì ÇÈúäó ãóÑúíóãó ÃóÁóäÊó ÞõáÊó áöáäøóÇÓö ÇÊøóÎöÐõæäöì]

(And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O `Isa, son of Maryam!

Did you say unto men: `Worship me''') and in its beginning,

[áøóÞóÏú ßóÝóÑó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÞóÂáõæÇú Åöäøó Çááøóåó åõæó ÇáúãóÓöíÍõ ÇÈúäõ ãóÑúíóãó]

He Wrote

Ruh-Ullah - Spirit of God, A special title given by Prophet Muhammad (S. A.) to Jesus (A. A.)"

Nisaburi contrasts human beings with Jesus' unique relationship with God:

"The human spirit which is the viceregent of God in His earth is capable of receiving all the kinds of divine attributes, by virtue of its viceregency, even the power of creation, revivification, healing as well as all other miracles which are the result of this power. But because of its attachment to the body, which is made of the elements, and its being veiled by the darkness of the lusts of the two parents, it is prevented from receiving the lights of [divine] attributes until divine succor brings it out of darkness by means of right guidance and its own physical and spiritual potencies. Then would the Prophet manifest signs and miracles, and in the saint would appear the characteristics of divine favors (karamat). Yet because the spirit and clay of Jesus, which were brought forth from Adam's loins, were kept with God until He cast them into Mary - without their being tainted by the darkness of the lusts of the two parents, for which reason he was called the Spirit of God - he was capable of receiving the lights of the attributes from the beginnings of his being.

"Thus he spoke to the people in the cradle and was able to read and write the Torah and the Gospel without instruction. He was also able to revive the dead and heal the sick and perform many other miracles." (2:146)

There exists controversy however as to the Spirit's identity. Some Muslims believe that the Spirit is the angel Gabriel. They base this belief on several passages from the Quran:

When We change one verse for another (God knows best what He reveals), they say: 'you are an imposter.' Indeed most of them have no knowledge. Say: 'The Holy Spirit brought it down from your Lord in truth to reassure the Faithful, and to give guidance and good news to those who surrender themselves.' S. 16:101-102 Dawood's Translation

Your Lord is the mighty One, the Merciful. This is surely revealed by the Lord of the universe. The Faithful Spirit brought it down into your heart, that you might warn the mankind in Arabic speech. S. 26:192-95 Dawood

Say: 'Whoever is an enemy of Gabriel (who has by God's grace revealed to you the Koran as a guide and joyful tidings for the Faithful, confirming previous scriptures) ...' S. 2:97 Dawood

Since the Quran states that the Spirit and the angel Gabriel brought down the revelation, it would naturally be assumed that the Spirit and Gabriel are one and the same.

Yet, when Muhammad was asked the identity of the Spirit, he replied that his identity was known by God alone:

They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men)!" S. 17:85

At the same time however, there are verses that suggest that the Spirit is an eternal and inseparable personality within the being of God:

"But He fashioned him (man) in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His Spirit..." S. 32:9

"Behold! Thy Lord said to the angels: 'I am about to create man, from sounding clay from mud molded into shape; 'When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My Spirit fall ye down in obeisance unto him.'" S. 15:28-29

The passages above indicate that God imparts life through the agency of his Holy Spirit, making the Spirit the Agent of Life.

My Response

Who ever the spirit is, one thing is for sure, Jesus is not part of Allah nor is Allah, I have given the tafsir of Ibn Kathir which show what the early Muslims believed. Here are some links that deal with the topic of the spirit in Islam:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/holy_spirit.htm

http://www.answering-christianity.com/spirit1_rebuttal.htm

http://www.answering-christianity.com/spirit2_rebuttal.htm

http://www.answering-christianity.com/spirit1_r1_rebuttal.htm

He Wrote

To say that the Spirit is of the created order would imply that God was devoid of the ability to impart life to his creatures, since it is through the agency of his Spirit that he gives life.

This suggestion is blasphemous since this implies a change in God's being. God does not change, and therefore does not acquire anything. He has eternally existed with all his qualities and attributes. In light of this fact, we are forced to conclude that the Spirit of God eternal:

Al Sayyid Abdul Karim Al Djabal, states that the Holy Spirit is not created, and what is not created is eternal and the eternal is God alone. (4:27)

Al Shaikh Muhammad Al Harira Al Bayyumi is in agreement; "The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of God is not created." (4:27)

Therefore, If the Spirit of God is eternal and Jesus Christ is the Spirit, this makes Jesus eternal. Considering the weight of all the evidence, this conclusion is in fact inevitable.

My Response

Yes and now Shamoun is going off topic, he is now diverting the issue on who is the 'Ruh' in Islam, who is the holy spirit, the spirit. This is has nuthing to do with Jesus, the fact is Allah breathed a soul into Mary which was Jesus. That is what is meant by spirit of Allah, or a spirit from Allah. Anyway Shamoun has already been refuted on this topic, here are the links:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/spirit1_rebuttal.htm

http://www.answering-christianity.com/spirit2_rebuttal.htm

http://www.answering-christianity.com/spirit1_r1_rebuttal.htm

He Wrote

Therefore, If the Spirit of God is eternal and Jesus Christ is the Spirit, this makes Jesus eternal. Considering the weight of all the evidence, this conclusion is in fact inevitable.

My Response

No my freind, the inevitable fact is that your a joke, you mis-interpreted Islamic sources, I showed Islamic sources talking about what is meant by Jesus being the spirit of Allah, or a spirit from Allah, it is nuthing divine and you are wrong on that so stop ranting. In fact why did you never post Ibn Kathir on what he had to say about this issue? You are very fond of always quoting him on your topics, so why didnt you this time? Again, God breathed a soul into Mary, it is called spirit of Allah or spirit from Allah, it does not mean part of Allah or being Allah. In fact the Quranic verses which talk about Jesus and how he was created by the spirit, it is not the same spirit which Shamoun is reffering to now, Shamoun has mixed the two up, Ruh- Allah when reffered to Jesus is not the same spirit which Shamoun is talking about now. He has played around with it, and mixed them up. Here is what Ibn Kathir Tafsir says:

The Meaning of "His Word and a spirit from Him

`Abdur-Razzaq narrated that Ma`mar said that Qatadah said that the Ayah,

[æóßóáöãóÊõåõ ÃóáúÞóÜåóÇ Åöáóì ãóÑúíóãó æóÑõæÍñ ãøöäúåõ]

(And His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him;) means,

He said,

[ßõäøó]

(Be) and he was. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ahmad bin Sinan Al-Wasiti said that he heard Shadh bin Yahya saying about Allah's statement,

[æóßóáöãóÊõåõ ÃóáúÞóÜåóÇ Åöáóì ãóÑúíóãó æóÑõæÍñ ãøöäúåõ]

(and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him;) "`Isa was not the word. Rather, `Isa came to existence because of the word.'' Al-

Bukhari recorded that `Ubadah bin As-Samit said that the Prophet said,

«ãöäú ÃóÈúæóÇÈö ÇáúÌóäøóÉö ÇáËøóãóÇäöíøóÉö íóÏúÎõáõ ãöäú ÃóíøöåóÇ ÔóÇÁ»

(...through any of the eight doors of Paradise he wishes.) Muslim also recorded it. Therefore, `Ruh from Allah', in the Ayah and the Hadith is similar to Allah's statement,

[æóÓóÎøóÑó áóßõãú ãøóÇ Ýöì ÇáÓøóãóÜæóÊö æóãóÇ Ýöì ÇáÇøñÑúÖö ÌóãöíÚÇð ãøöäúåõ]

[åóÜÐöåö äóÇÞóÉõ Çááøóåö]

(This is the she-camel of Allah...) and,

[æóØóåøöÑú ÈóíúÊöìó áöáØøóÂÆöÝöíäó]

(and sanctify My House for those who circumambulate it.) An authentic Hadith states,

«ÝóÃóÏúÎõáõ Úóáóì ÑóÈøöí Ýöí ÏóÇÑöå»

(I will enter on my Lord in His Home) All these examples are meant to honor such items when they are attributed to Allah in this manner. Allah said,

[ÝóÜóÇãöäõæÇú ÈöÇááøóåö æóÑóÓõæáöåö]

[æóáÇó ÊóÞõæáõæÇú ËóáóÜËóÉñ]

(Say not: "Three!") do not elevate `Isa and his mother to be gods with Allah. Allah is far holier than what they attribute to Him. In Surat Al-Ma'idah (chapter 5), Allah said,

(Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allah is the third of the three.'' But there is none who has the right to be worshipped but One God.) Allah said by the end of the same Surah,

[æóÅöÐú ÞóÇáó Çááøóåõ íÚöíÓóì ÇÈúäó ãóÑúíóãó ÃóÁóäÊó ÞõáÊó áöáäøóÇÓö ÇÊøóÎöÐõæäöì]

(And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O `Isa, son of Maryam!

Did you say unto men: `Worship me''') and in its beginning,

[áøóÞóÏú ßóÝóÑó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÞóÂáõæÇú Åöäøó Çááøóåó åõæó ÇáúãóÓöíÍõ ÇÈúäõ ãóÑúíóãó]

004.171
YUSUFALI: O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

This spirit mentioned here is not the same one Shamoun is talking about which is this spirit:

They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men)!" S. 17:85

Shamoun has mixed them up, he mixed this spirit up with these verses as well:

"But He fashioned him (man) in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His Spirit..." S. 32:9

These are different meanings. Shamoun has mixed them up, when Allah says he breaths his spirit and makes life this means he breathes a soul. The spirit being mentioned in surah 32:9 is a different subject. So he mixed them up.

He Wrote

Yusef Ali noted that, "Whenever anyone offers his heart in faith and purity to God, God accepts it, engraves that faith on the seeker's heart, and further fortifies him with the Divine Spirit, which we can no more define adequately than we can define in human language the nature of God." (1: f. 5365)

My Response

The divine spirit is not the one being mentioned when Allah says he breaths his spirit into someone. Stop mixing them up, even when you read the verses you see they are not the same thing.

What is more funny is that Shamoun quotes Islamic sources including the Quran which say VERY LITTLE IS KNOW ABOUT THE SPIRIT, yet Shamoun manages to end up by definining the spirit as being God! Hillarious indeed, it never amazes me to how silly this man can get at times. If the spirit was God I believe Allah would have told us, stop mis-interpreting our book, your making a fool out of yourself. The spirit is not God, will never be God, and if you do not repent, you will be thrown into the blazing fire for such blasphemous remarks.

He Wrote

(Note - the Christians believe that based on the Bible, the Holy Spirit is not Jesus Christ, but a distinct yet inseparable personality from Christ. God is Father, Eternal Word and Holy Spirit.

The Father creates, bringing all things into existence through His Eternal Word, by whom He also reveals Himself to man. The Father imparts life into man and unites with him through the indwelling of His Holy Spirit. [Genesis 1:1-3; 2:7; John 1:1-3, 14,18; 1 Corinthians 6:19]

God as creator, the Father - Hebrews 3:4. God revealed, The Son - His Word - Matthew 11:27; John 1:1; Revelation 19:13. God the giver of life, the Holy Spirit - Romans 8:4b,11; 2 Corinthians 3:6b)

My Response

Thank you for showing this, it just exposed you. This proves that Shamoun is merely implenting his Christian theology into Islamic teachings and is now comming out with a Christian message from within Islam that Jesus is God and the spirit is God! Hillarious!

He Wrote

Christ The Author Of Life

The Quran portrays Jesus as the divine Creator and Author of life:

And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and Gospel and (appoint him) a messenger to the children of Israel (with this message): "I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's permission. And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store." S. 3:48-49; 5:110

My Response

If only I could have a dollar for everytime a missionary brought those verses up! It is so amazing that Christians always quote this verse while conveniantly leaving out the rest which completly throws their case out. In part one of this rebuttal I gave the Islamic stand point of Jesus from the Quran, it without a doubt showed that the Quran says Jesus is not God or divine but just a prophet. So you have to get the big picture, something Christians fail to do. Christians fail to remember that Jesus is a prophet, so hence he is give great miracles, and breathing into something and it becoming a bird is a great miracle! Note what the verses says:

have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's permission. And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave

So Shamoun conveniantly forgot those parts. Notice before Jesus even carries out the miracle he takes away full responsibility and ownership of that miracle when he states:

have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord

So before performing the miracle, Jesus says I am comming to you with a sign, a great miracle from the LORD, from ALLAH. So hence before performing the miracle Jesus says I am going to do something which is given from Allah! So hence this throws out their whole argument, it is really Allah doing the real work! He is giving Jesus the sign, the miracle, the ability to carry it out, Jesus is not doing it by himself all on his own. Now to the next part which Christians love to use which is:

the figure of a bird and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's permission. And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave

They say ohhhhhhh Jesus breathed life! Yes, read on abit more, BY ALLAH'S PERMISION! What does that mean?! It means Allah gave Jesus the power to do it, and allowed Jesus to do it! What did Jesus first say before he did it?

I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord

So before he does it he says it is from GOD, from Allah, NOT FROM ME, so before he even did it he wanted to make sure you knew this is from God and not himself so you would not say he is God. It doesnt take a genius to figure that out, Shamoun also knows this yet he chooses to play around and try to mis-interpret the Quran, as usual he fails. So this argument brought up is easily dealt with.

He Wrote

From this we observe that Christ, similar to God, is a life-giving spirit. This fact is echoed in the Holy Bible:

"...The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam (Jesus) became a life-giving Spirit." 1 Corinthians 15:45

The implications of this passage on the divinity of Christ are so enormous that certain sects within Islam - such as Ahmadiyyah, have had to deny its literal interpretation in order to avoid the obvious.

My Response

Yes now your blabbering, I just refuted you in a few paragraphs, if Ahmadiyas could not get it then they are worse of than you. Now since you appeal to Ahmadiyas you shot yourself in the foot. If I recall the NT verses speaking of Jesus' limitations and he could not have been God are so enormous that JW dont believe he is God, neither to several Christians, neither do Jews who believe in the NT, infact Jews believe this based on the OT because the information has so much implications for Jesus of the NT. So hence you have no point in saying what Ahamadiyas think.

He Wrote

The late Maulana Muhammad Ali of the Ahmadiyyah sect writes,

"...The act of khalq (creating) in the sense of creation cannot be attributed to any being except Allah. The Quran has laid the greatest stress upon this point. It again and again speaks of the Divine Being as the creator of everything, so that there is nothing of which any one else may be said to be a creator. And of those who are taken as gods by any people, it says in particular that they do not create anything, while they are themselves created (16:20; 25:3)." (Ali, Holy Quran, 1995 edition: f. 428)

What the Maulana is basically pointing to is that, attributing creative actions to Christ is to make him God, since God alone has the supreme power over all creation

My Response

Yes, so from now on I will quote JW on what they think of Jesus? Would you like that? Since you want to take this approach.

(Incase anyone is wondering what JW means, it stands for Jehovah's witnesses, they dont believe Jesus is God and there are ALOT of them, not just some minority like Ahamadiyas.)

He Wrote

Muhammad Asad also agrees that to attribute creative powers to any human, is to make him divine. In regards to Muhammad's inability to perform miracles, he notes:

"...The repeated insistence in the Quran on the humanness of the Prophet is in tune with the doctrine that no created being has or could have any share, however small, in any of the Creator's qualities or powers. In logical continuation of this argument, the next passage (vv. 189-198), stresses the uniqueness and exclusiveness of God's creative powers." (Asad, The Message of the Quran, p.233, n. 154 on S. 7:188 emphasis ours)

Hence, if Asad's assessment is correct then Christ is more than human, since he shares in God's exclusive powers of creation. This is the second time which Asad indirectly affirms Christ's Divine nature.

My Response

Actually go read the hadiths, there are miracles of Muhammad recorded in them, so does Muhammad Asad reject those hadiths?

He Wrote

To avoid this implication, Maulana Ali makes the verse read as an allegorical statement:

"To understand the significance of this passage it is necessary to bear in mind that the chief characteristic of Jesus' speeches is that he spoke in parables and preferred to clothe his ideas in allegorical language... It is perfectly intelligible if taken as a parable, but quite incomprehensible as a statement of fact. If on the one hand a prophet's dignity is much above such actions as the making of clay birds, on the other hand the act of creation is not attributable to any but the Divine Being." (Ibid.)

For those Muslims who do believe in the literal interpretation of the passage, the argument is avoided by the statement that Christ could only create, heal and raise the dead by the permission of God.

Interestingly however, rather than this being a denial of Christ's deity, it serves to confirm to Christians the unique relationship that Christ alone has with God his Father.

My Response

Yes and your getting boring, you have been refuted on this passage, it was very easy to respond to with no diffuculty. If these Islamic scholars have problems with it then maybe they should go back to school and learn how to read the Quran because as everyone saw, it was very simple on Jesus breathing life into a bird. The Quran was crystal clear that this did not make Jesus divine, let us see it again:

I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's permission. And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave

So even before Jesus performs this great miracle he says it is FROM GOD. Not from himself, how more clear can it get? So I dont understand why some Islamic scholars have such a hard time in dealing with this, its very simple.

He Wrote

Surely there are many prophets who have performed miracles. Moses and his staff turning into a serpent stands as an example of this statement. However, no prophet ever gave life to clay figures and no prophet ever contained life within himself to impart to others if necessary. Jesus Christ alone is the possessor of such a power.

It follows then to ask, why is Christ the only one who has been given the supernatural prerogative to impart life! Furthermore, why is it that Christ is the only prophet to have knowledge of the day of judgment as recorded in S. 43:59, 61?

My Response

All you head from Sam is: WHY WHY WHY WHY! Stop questioning God! Why did Allah make Muhammad the last prophet and not Jesus? Why did Allah send Muhammad with the glorious Quran and not Jesus? Why did Allah make Adam the first man but not Jesus? Why did Allah make Abraham a father to nations but not Jesus? Why did Allah make Yusuf a ruler in Egypt but not Jesus? Why did Allah allow Moses to split the seas but not Jesus?

Many many more of these silly questions can be brought up, it holds no value!

Jesus is the only prophet to know the knowledge of Judgement day? Let us quote:

043.059
YUSUFALI: He was no more than a servant: We granted Our favour to him, and We made him an example to the Children of Israel.

043.060
YUSUFALI: And if it were Our Will, We could make angels from amongst you, succeeding each other on the earth.

043.061
YUSUFALI: And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way

Question, where does this show that Jesus has knowledge of judgement day in a SPECIAL WAY which is what Shamoun is trying to show. Tell me Sam, what is so special about Jesus being a sign for judgement day? I would love to know where this verse says Jesus has knowledge of judgement day? Please tell me, SHOW ME!

Note what he said:

Furthermore, why is it that Christ is the only prophet to have knowledge of the day of judgment as recorded in S. 43:59, 61?

Where in those verses, did it show that Jesus has knowledge about the day of judgement? You are a lying lunatic who has just been exposed again. This is what you call class A missionary. Jesus shall be A SIGN FOR JUDGEMENT DAY, it doesnt say Jesus HAS KNOWLEDGE OF JUDGEMENT DAY.

So please dont lie like that again, although I know its hard for you since you believe in Paul.

From Tafsir Ibn Kathir on this:

and We made him an example for the Children of Israel.) means, `a sign, proof and evidence of Our power to do whatever We will.'

[æóáóæú äóÔóÂÁõ áóÌóÚóáúäóÇ ãöäßõãú ãøóáóÜÆößóÉð Ýöì ÇáÇøñÑúÖö íóÎúáõÝõæäó ]

(And if it were Our will, We would have made angels to replace you on the earth.) As-Suddi said, "They would have taken your place on (the earth). '' Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, and Qatadah said, "They would have succeeded one another just as you succeed one another.'' This view is implied by the former veiw. Mujahid said, "They would have populated the earth instead of you.'' Allah's saying:

[æóÅöäøóåõ áóÚöáúãñ áøöáÓøóÇÚóÉö]

(And he (`Isa) shall be a known sign for (the coming of) the Hour.) The correct view concerning this phrase is that it refers to his descent before the Day of Resurrection, as Allah says: